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[Argonnath]

Leave it alone.

[Doktor von Wer]

Chris says no. Chris want change.

UEAW's land is going to be fully re-balanced anyway (check my latest post in the land bombardment thread), and this isn't something that is down to your requests, the game will be remade and we'll be making it better and re-doing it basically from scratch, thus stormtroopers will probably change.

[V]

V agrees with Chris.

Stormies were leaps and bounds ahead of Rebel troopers, any "evidence" to the contrarty is either wishful thinking or game/movie mechanics.

[e^(πi)+1=0]

not true. Just because you like a faction doesn't make it any more powerful. If that were true, well, the US would have won Vietnam and won Iraq long ago.
and there is much "evidence" against it, actually. the Empire used poor tactics, often rushing stormtroopers at entrenched rebels; the stormtroopers learned nothing by getting killed, and the rebels learned valuable tactics, once again, gaining experience.
also, the game cannot be perfectly balanced like real star wars is, because its true that the rebels often won because of stupid imperial commanders and luck; the Empire's forces were definitely superior, though not much in infantry, they had much greater numbers and could easily procure large numbers of vehicles. If it were balanced like real star wars, then the Empire's sheer power would overwhelm the balance. You may say "if you use good tactics, then you can win", this is true, but a rebel commander will have to carefully and skillfully maneuver the enemy into a defeat, whereas any half-arse player will be able to lay a whooping down on the rebels without using good strategy, especially an AI; it would ruin the fun of an evenly matched fight.

[V]

What makes you think I like the Empire better?

I'm not asking for exact specifications, but I am asking for a more accurate portrayal of Stormtroopers. People speak of Stormies as if they were idiots; granted, some of them may have been, but the vast majority were at least intelligent enough to be on par with Rebel troops. Combined with superior tech and training, then they can easily be an over-match for a Rebel. Also, people talk of Stormies as if they were made cheaply and en mass; while the second part may be true (depending on your definition), the first most certainly is not. Stormtroopers were the crack members of the Imperial Military, a swift cudgel to support and work independently of the hammer of the Imperial Army.

[e^(πi)+1=0]

not true; Clones were not as intelligent or independent as regular humans, and all but elite stormtroopers had intelligence and independence toned down even more to reduce cost and allow easier command over them; only by the time the Empire started using normal lifeforms did they become as intelligent, and by that time Palpatine was dead and training had degraded. They did have superior technology, but that came from support, not from themselves. They had tanks when the rebels couldn't afford any. stormtroopers were similar to TIE fighters; cheap but effective, and available in huge supply.
even if you're right, how would we address the balancing problem?

[V]

The Empire started using nonclones about 9 years into its reign; after the Uprising on Kamino. So, there was about 11 years of Stormies who were trained under Palpatine's Empire who were not clones. While it's true training dregraded after Palpatine, it picked up again before the Vong War.

Give Stormies slightly more health than the Rebels (their armor should count for something, even if it was made to be impervious to projectiles), as well as a higher rate of fire. Give the Rebels more speed and let them keep their Take Cover ability, taking it away from the Stormies. Make the Rebels slightly longer ranged, since Stormtroopers used carbines and Rebels used rifles (generally, anways).

[Doktor von Wer]

And I quote:

'Stormtroopers were the elite shock troopers of the Galactic Empire. Like Imperial-class Star Destroyers and TIE Fighters, stormtroopers served as reminders of the Emperor's power, extensions of his will, and a method of keeping the Empire's thousands of star systems in line through fear.'

They were better soldiers. Imp army maybe not as good and cheap, but not the stormies.

Mine and V's older points still stand.

[Peace Trooper]

im with chris

[e^(πi)+1=0]

ok, i'll agree that i was wrong after reading the wookie article.
now, how will we not screw up the balance? it will be hard to do this without making the Empire much stronger than the rebels.

[V]

Give Stormies slightly more health than the Rebels (their armor should count for something, even if it was made to be impervious to projectiles), as well as a higher rate of fire. Give the Rebels more speed and let them keep their Take Cover ability, taking it away from the Stormies. Make the Rebels slightly longer ranged, since Stormtroopers used carbines and Rebels used rifles (generally, anways).

That sounds fine to me. Although, I may be biased

[e^(πi)+1=0]

im fine with it so long as its not drastic.
here's my idea:
-take away the take cover ability from stormies; the Empire wouldn't do that.
-make stormtroopers more accurate at close range and faster firing.
-give them slightly more health.

[V]

Sounds great.

[Django (sunfalcon)]

I like e's idea its more canon.

[Sanchez]

not true. Just because you like a faction doesn't make it any more powerful. If that were true, well, the US would have won Vietnam and won Iraq long ago.

We did win Iraq a long time ago... it took less then a week. We are currently stuck in a reconstruction effort that is draining our recourses and moral. You cannot defeat the hearts and minds of a group of people with tech alone, it takes more than that. (Star Wars is a great example, but US=good, not bad)

stormtroopers were similar to TIE fighters; cheap but effective, and available in huge supply.
even if you're right, how would we address the balancing problem?

There was no balance, the Rebels were sneaky little rat (No offense) in a one on one, all out brawl, the Empire should be able to wipe the floor with the rebels, see battle of hoth. But the Rebels always have a cleaver trick up there sleeves, Ion Cannon to Star Destroyer for evac. So keep the rebel sneak attack ability, but make it bigger, not much though. Rebels should not attack an Imperial task force head on (land wise) it is insane. And i offer an added ability, the defiler sabotage to destroy buildings.

Now as for the Topic, Stormtroopers should be better in a one on one fight, much better. Training and drills should make their accuracy as good as these so called "veteran" rebel troops, the ST's armor should give them a slightly better health, and both should keep the "Cover" ability... As for "Do the ST do more damage?" I lean in yes, but the rebel player should have the ability to buy and upgrade for the rebel troops to make them do equal damage as the ST.

here's my idea:
-take away the take cover ability from stormies; the Empire wouldn't do that.

That would be calling them Retarded (sorry for the harsh word)... Though you see them charging into battle head strong, you can also see them ducking for cover, you can see them on their toes, ready to go to ground if need be... taking away that ability doesn't seem right.

[BowserandDESTROYAH!]

in my opinion stormtroopers are 1% better than rebels.

[V]

But taking it away adds more balance. I agree with you that it isn't right, but sacrifices must be made in the name of balamce.

*prepares a sacrificial knife and alter for the Imperial Take Cover ability*

[e^(πi)+1=0]

We did win Iraq a long time ago... it took less then a week. We are currently stuck in a reconstruction effort that is draining our recourses and moral. You cannot defeat the hearts and minds of a group of people with tech alone, it takes more than that. (Star Wars is a great example, but US=good, not bad)

i like the US, but we have not achieved complete victory; its not reconstruction we're stuck in now, its establishment of order.
 

i don't know about the take cover ability, its not the troopers that were retarded, its the commanders who used the outdated march-charge tactics. why else would stormtroopers be trained to march? it makes more sense too, in the movies the stormies usually shot standing, or at best standing behind cover; they didn't often hunker down low.

[Sanchez]

they didn't often hunker down low.

but they did when the time called for it... and you are the commander, right? so shouldn't be able to tell them to take cover or not?

[e^(πi)+1=0]

once again, making them significantly stronger than the rebel troops will mess up the balance. there's not much one can do about it, they have to be balanced with the rebels.